Thursday, November 30, 2006

Concerns from S1

I think there may be some worries in S1 that their new found parking freedom is about to be invaded by hordes of several million 'Zone 8ers'. I received this email from Lapis Lazuli.

The problems in S1 before were caused by commuters, I think, not neighbouring residents. Moreover, our numbers show that the impact on S1, if pay and display is turned over to dual use as well, will be unnoticeable.

However, even though our cause won't hurt S1 in any way, we ought to try and address these concerns. Does anyone have any ideas about what we might do?

I must also say that, despite what Lapis implies, I've only delete spam comments from the blog and that I don't think any one in Zone 8 would threaten Lapis.



Here's the email:

I understand that there is a campaign running to allow residents of N Marchmont to be allowed to park in zone S1. Do not believe there is any unanimity on this across marchmont. This is opposed by all those I have canvassed on this in the marchmont portion of zone S1.
We have suffered from free-loading zone 8ers for 20 years or more.

See also my comments and those of an anonymous but like minded person at http://marchmontparking.blogspot.com/ (if they haven’t been censored again).

Given the strong feelings aroused among those in N marchmont I am obliged to remain anonymous (as is my right in law under section 8 of the Human Rights Act).
I simply wished you to have support to protect S1 from
Z8 cars flooding in again.

lapis



And I have this one from a resident of S1.

Hugh,

Congratulations on your web site, which is providing a constructive forum for airing views and facts about parking. I am writing to you to express a contrary view to those of your local residents in Marchmont, not to be argumentative, but simply to present an alternative view, so that you can see how others view the situation from outside Marchmont.

I would oppose any proposal to merge zones 8 and S1. I want zones to be as small as it is practical to set up and enforce. Let me explain why I believe those of us in the Grange and those in Marchmont will always have opposing views on this and why it will be very difficult for the politicians and Council officials to adjudicate on the matter.

Your own website (blog) is very helpful in providing statistics that enable us to support our prejudices with real facts. I see from the analysis of Zone 8 spaces vs permits that there are 1225 residents’ permits in zone 8, while there are only 755 residents’ spaces. There are only 322 pay and display spaces, so even if all of these were converted to shared use, there would still be insufficient spaces for residents to park all their cars in zone 8.

That is the nub of the problem. Residents of zone 8 have more cars than there is space in which to park them. They will therefore want the zone to be as large as possible to allow them to spill over into an area where demand for on-street parking is less than supply. Those living in that outer area (e.g. S1), however, if demand for on-street parking from residents is less than the available space, will take a diametrically opposing view, wanting any controlled parking zone to be as small as possible. In that way, those residents are more likely to have a space outside their property available for their own parking or empty to improve the appearance and cleanliness of the street. In the extreme, their ideal parking zone would be the exclusive parking rights in the length of road in front of their own property.

I am fortunate in living in a house in the Grange with a garage for my cars. When I moved here, I considered my needs for my family and my furniture and I looked for a property that met my needs. I have two children and two cars. My requirements were therefore for a house with enough bedrooms for my family and enough off-street parking for my cars. If I had purchased a house that was too small for my family or my furniture, I would not expect my neighbours to provide lodging for my children, nor to store my surplus furniture in their houses or gardens. I certainly would not expect to leave my surplus furniture outside their houses. I take a similar view with cars. If I could not afford a property in South Edinburgh with off-street parking, I would have to choose between the amenity of living in South Edinburgh (and forsaking one or both of my cars) or living somewhere less pleasant where I could park both my cars off-road. I do not assume that it is a right of a resident to be provided with on-street parking.

I know that the world looks very different to residents of Marchmont. I see from your blog that a major concern of Marchmont residents is about the refuse bins taking up parking space. Residents of Marchmont understandably see the roads as a parking resource in which the objective is to maximise the number of cars that can be parked there.

Residents of the Grange (at least some of them) take the opposite view. The ideal state of the roads is to have no parked cars in them at all. When I first moved to the Grange, there were rarely any cars parked outside my house at night or at weekends. My children played in the street. They learned to cycle in the road and I felt comfortable letting them cycle round the block as the roads are wide enough to accommodate wobbly cyclists and careful drivers. More recently, however, the roads became more solidly parked. The gutters were not getting swept when the road sweeping lorry came round. The buses could not stop by the kerb in Lauder Road because cars parked at the bus stops. And my children’s cycle to school was now past a continuous line of parked cars.

With the advent of Zone S1, things have improved markedly in that area. The roads look much better, feel safer and generally make the Grange a more pleasant place to be and to walk through. Contributors to your blog start from the presumption that empty spaces in streets are a waste and that they should be used for parking. I take the opposite view. Empty spaces are good and improve the amenity of the streets I live in and walk through. You may have noticed that the Grange Association (our local residents’ group) has lobbied the Council about the visual impact of the new signs, posts and road markings of Zone S1. We jealously guard the Grange’s Conservation Area status. You can imagine that if we are troubled by the visual impact of some posts and ticket machines, we are much more troubled by the impact of having parked cars and vans. Their impact is much greater and does markedly change the look and feel of the area.

I know that my views may irritate people in Marchmont, who may feel that the residents of the Grange are very fortunate in being able to afford the luxury of houses with off-street parking, and that the Grange should provide some relief for the overspill of cars from Marchmont. However, I believe that the residents of Marchmont (Zone 8 specifically) must be responsible for finding the solution to their own problem.

The problem is too many cars for the spaces available in Zone 8. How you choose to solve that problem is up to you. You could restrict the number of residents’ permits to the number of spaces available and then auction them, or raffle them, or have a lottery. You could club together to rent some garages or off-street parking outside the area. You can lobby the Council to increase the amount of parking available on-street (e.g. end-on parking). But the solution must be contained within Zone 8. It is not reasonable to expect those outside zone 8, who have made provision for the storage of their vehicles, to cross-subsidise Zone 8 by providing parking on the streets of the Grange or other parts of S1. We like our empty streets.

Your blog is revealing in showing how the world looks completely different to you in Marchmont than it does to me in the Grange. There are comments such as:

“We want the council to know that they need to stop fixing problems by creating problems in other places.”

implying that it is the Council that is creating the problem of there being too many cars in Zone 8.

Another comment:

“Mary has lived there for many, many years and has never had a permit in all that time. She used to park just round the corner in the free parking in S1 and never had any trouble finding a space not too far away.”

shows that there are still more cars of residents of Zone 8 not in your statistics. I therefore doubt the statement:

“The problems in S1 before were caused by commuters, I think, not neighbouring residents. Moreover, our numbers show that the impact on S1, if pay and display is turned over to dual use as well, will be unnoticeable.”

Your numbers show that there are at least 470 cars (plus those like Mary who are not in your numbers) that would park in S1, this being the excess number of Zone 8 permits issued comared with spaces available. I don’t think that is ‘unnoticeable’.

I do understand that this is not a problem that can be solved overnight, and glib statements from people like me that “you have too many cars” do not sound helpful. However, there is the longer term question of whether Zone 8 residents really do need that many cars. I notice that your excellent statistics on the number of spaces in each street were collected by driving round the streets. I found that very revealing. It would never occur to me to drive to Marchmont. It’s only round the corner and I can walk it in five minutes. Maybe that’s because I would have to get my car out of the garage and you can just hop into your car parked on the street. But it does make me wonder if you are a bit too wedded to your cars.

I trust that you will take my comments here as helpful in setting out an opposing view, so that you can see how the debate lies. I do understand that you have a real problem and that you need to solve it and I am just an outsider in your deliberations.

I would be very happy if you want to post some or all of this e-mail on your blog, but please do not publish my name, phone number or e-mail address. Just call me ‘a resident of the Grange’.

I am copying this e-mail to Marilyne MacLaren and Jim Grieve.


Yours sincerely,

11 comments:

Anonymous said...

Its good to get some feedback from people living in Zone S1. I certainly agree that any solution to this problem must be to the mutual benefit of you guys also.

My feeling is that (like Hugh) most of the parked cars you describe were primarily occupied by commuters so I would hope that if Zones 8 and S1 are merged this would work out as a satisfactory solution for both parties.

For me, the real sting is paying £80pa to the Council and then not being able to park anywhere near my flat. I think this is another distinction between current Zone 8 and the problems in your neighbourhood before it became S1.

Fraser
(Anonymous as I seem to be having difficulties setting up a blogger account - oh well its not like I work in IT or anything..)

Anonymous said...

Hugh says: "The problems in S1 before were caused by commuters, I think, not neighbouring residents. Moreover, our numbers show that the impact on S1, if pay and display is turned over to dual use as well, will be unnoticeable."

Tain't so, least not in evening and at night. Before intro of S1 there were no spaces in evening or at night. By 7pm all the commuters had left but all the spaces were gone. Now there are spaces at night. hard to prove but pretty sure these were folk too mean to buy a zone 8 permit. Indeed I know people from WPK that parked all week in our street and at weekend moved to outside their door.

Now that S1 has come in and zone 8ers can't park in my street long term i don't need to worry about coming back after 10:30pm and having to park in Hope terrace any more. on a wet and windy night after a 18 hour day in London that's very appreciated.

I know that zone8ers already park in my street overnight. You might think that allowing them to park in the day when there are admittedly plenty spaces wouldn't therefore matter. However I worry that if zone8ers get to use S1 any time they will leave their cars there long term rather than having to move them between 8:30 and 5:30 and they will therefore be tempted to do so. Then, as before, I will be unable to park near my house.

Paula said...

At last - some response from the Council into how we can provide some realistic solutions to a long term problem. I agree that there is not enough parking for all the cars that are in use and in an ideal world there would be less cars and people would be more concerned about the environment than how easy it is for them to get to / from work and transport their families around. This is not really likely to happen though....
I am sorry that our campaign in zone 8 seems to have wound up some residents in the other areas but does it not seem sensible and fair to utilise some of the spaces that lie empty in these zones ? I am also sorry if this means the residents of the Grange have to look at parked cars rather than not ( but in an urban area is this not the outlook for most ?) at least we have Blackford hill, the Links and the Meadows close by.....
Unfortunately some of us are unable to afford a house with enough bedrooms for our children and a garage / driveway to accomodate our 2 cars !! and have to live in tenement flats and park our cars on the street, and at the moment not even outside our flat but some distance away.
As lapis wants - to park outside his / her house, is what we all want is it not ? I would even be content to be able to park in a street relatively close to my flat, just close enough to it to justify paying the council £80 for the permit. As a mum to be I know I will soon be looking at humping enough stuff in/out of my flat to provide for a small army ! and would prefer not to have to add on a 15 minute + walk each time I dare venture out ! Hopefully our small surveys of use of the parking zones will show that there are empty spaces lying in zone S1 when there are none at all to be had in zone 8 - we are not asking for all these spaces, only that some are shared as it does seem that since the introduction of CPZ, zone 8 has become almost impossible to park in at any time of the day. I do believe that the problems experienced by us are not isolated and other areas in Edinburgh are also experiencing them therefore by setting up campaigns ( and brilliant blogs Hugh !) and sharing our thoughts, frustrations and ideas on how to solve them, may help the Council in coming up with mutually acceptable and realistic solutions.

Anonymous said...

Paula,

You don't "have" to live in a tenement flat in Marchmont and have a car. You have chosen to do this. If the flats where you live have residents with more cars than there is space to park them in the frontage of the road outside, then you are expecting other residents somewhere else to subsidise you with road space. That is not reasonable. Your posting here shows that you consider the road space to be a resource for parking. That is not how many others see it outside Marchmont. In streets where the residents have no need for on-street parking, those residents would much prefer the streets to be kept empty. I don't understand why they should have to put up with parked cars overspilling from Marchmont, where residents have chosen to live, knowing that there is not adequate provision for parking there.

Anonymous said...

Until just recently where we chose to live did have excellent parking.

By your logic, since you bought where you did you should expect lots of cars (unless you bought forty years ago or after September this year).

"You don't "have" to live in a tenement flat in Marchmont and have a car." This is a joke, right?

John.

Anonymous said...

anonymous john says: "Until just recently where we chose to live did have excellent parking."

yes, free - outside my door and therefore at my expense rather than yours (did you buy a permit? I know lots of zone8 folk didn't!

The difference in views supposed to be between grange and marchmont is also between marchmont (7/8) and marchmont S1. I have now spoken to several more residents of S1 and to a man/woman they oppose merging S1 and 8 or indeed giving 8ers special priviledges to park in S1. Sorry!

Anonymous said...

I bought my flat in Zone 8 four years ago and the very first thing I did was buy a parking permit. On street parking was pointed out to me as an amenity, but one properly to be paid for, by the vendors of my house. I have never freeloded into S1 or anywhere else. The situation now is such that I hardly ever dare use the car because I won't be able to park when i come home. I have paid for this service, and I very much resent the implication that as a Z8 resident I am somehow less entitled to personal transport than the those in more favoured areas. As a senior citizen I don't wish, in future, and didn't choose, to be either confined to the house or dependent on taxis. A simple examination of the 'parking map' shows that the curious panhandle shape of Zones 7 and 8 are a hangover from the days when they were created for the convenience of residents to the immediate south of the Meadows. But now they are completely illogical. I don't think the right to park just round the corner for those of us who live in that narrow strip of tenement development would actually destroy the environment of those lucky enough, and rich enough, to live in the leafy glades of the Grange.

Anonymous said...

I work for a market research company and have come across your blog by chance as part of a current project.

I am not a resident of either Marchmont or the Grange and am not particularly familiar with the area.

But it struck me as I was reading that you may have a use for a new parking service which has been in the newspapers recently. It's an online service which allows residents to rent out their driveways to drivers. Are there any residents in the Grange or local businesses who don't use their driveways/carparks and could make some money by renting a space to a Marchmont driver?

The address of the site is parkatmyhouse.com.

As I said, I don't know if this can contribute to solving your problems but I got quite caught up as I was reading the blog and thought I'd try and help.

Best of luck with the campaign!

Anonymous said...

Im sorry but although i understand the point of view from residents of S1, i think they are being completely selfish. there are enough spaces for residents of zone 8 to use S1 so i dont see why we cant. Im sure you would be saying the same thing if you lived in a zone 8 area. The point of the matter is that this is all the councils fault, if we are paying for a parking permit, then i believe it is their obligation to make sure that we can park SOMEWHERE - wouldnt the problem be alleviated if there were NO ZONES and only residents with a parking permit could park in the surrounding areas?

Anonymous said...

Also, you say we are "wedded" to our cars - well its alright for some people like yourself who have the luxury of storing their cars in a private garage AND having the luxury of seeing no cars on their precious street - well you cant have your cake AND eat it.

Anonymous said...

Dear Anonymous,

You can park SOMEWHERE already - any of the empty pay-and-display bays in Zone S1. I think your point is that you want to be able to park there for 31p/day (£80/year) while others have to pay £4.30/day. In your world of NO ZONES, who would be entitled to get permits for the cheap parking and who would have to pay the full rate? And why?